Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  Sean Mirrsen on Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:01 pm

I'll only "reveal" it tomorrow, if it isn't guessed by then. What fun is a guessing game with just one participant?
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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  Sean Mirrsen on Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:40 pm

Creative mode engaged.

There's a city that's full of misery,
There's a twisted kind of honesty,..
There's a sort of a disloyalty,..
There's a lack of generosity...
--
Don't need four hooves, just to be a pony.
Don't need two arms, to be a man.
Don't need fingers, to shape a friendship.
Just need to hear us, to understand.

Every universe in existence, every species, any race,
You just need to have persistence, and a friendly face.
Every creature in existence, purple, orange, pink or blue -
There's one way to coexistence,
All you need is a friend or two...
--
In their world, beyond the veil of stars,
There are hearts that bear many scars,
But there's a light that our love can find
And there's a hope for all of Humankind

So let's give them more than sympathy
In the name of Generosity,
With our Kindness and our Loyalty,
Let our Magic give them HARMONY-Y!
--
Don't need four hooves, just to be a pony.
Don't need two arms, to be a man.
Don't need fingers, to shape a friendship.
Just need to hear us, to understand.

Every universe in existence, every species, any race,
You just need to have persistence, and a friendly face.
Every creature in existence, purple, orange, pink or blue -
There's one way to coexistence,
All you need is a friend or two...


Okay, that's the complete song, sans one stanza in the first half that seems to be missing from the music videos I can find. I can't find proper words for it anyway, so all is good.
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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  Armok on Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:46 pm

This is great if and only if it's intention is a satire of horibly slef indulgent fanfiction.

Also, are you SURE this isn't a The Spellbook crossover?
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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  Slag on Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:08 pm

The plan is to sort of poke fun at how most self-insert fics are Mary Sue by making a character who's completely not Mary Sue at all and has to adjust himself to the fact that he's not as good as he was in his mind.

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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  Armok on Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:22 pm

You... are not doing all that well. See the list of sue types: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue
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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  MC Dirty on Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:39 pm

Armok wrote:You... are not doing all that well. See the list of sue types: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue
According to that list, Alex is starting to become a Relationship Sue and sort of an Anti Sue. Although the latter not that much since he's actually fairly competent at what he does, but I have yet to see any serious character flaws that aren't just quirks with not much of a consequence.
The last point is the most important and the reason why self-insert fanfics are so difficult to do well: It's very difficult to clearly see one's own character flaws and even more difficult to face those character flaws and write them down.
Self-insert fanfics aren't bad per se, but that is the reason why they generally are.

Regardless of that, I still enjoy the story so far, but if he doesn't display any character flaws soon, it's gonna get boring rather quickly.

Note how I always call the main character of your self-insert story "him" instead of "you" when talking to you? That's because while he does share some similarities with you, he can't really be you (for now, at least) because we see the world and ourselves through our eyes which give us a rather distorted and limited view of the world and most importantly ourselves. Being honest to oneself is difficult for everyone, but necessary for a great self-insert fanfic.
And I do believe such a fanfic can exist.

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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  Slag on Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:23 pm

I was actually about to get into all that lovely stuff. There's a reason I titled this 'To Be An Alien,' my character isn't going to be skipping through daisies.

Unfortunately, it will have to wait, for now. I'm going to be acting as usher at my aunt's wedding today, so I won't have much time to write.

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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  Sean Mirrsen on Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:58 pm

Still no good guesses for the song?

If it wasn't obvious from the first time I mentioned it, the name - "To Be An Alien" - was what reminded me of the song, so it's related.
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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  Slag on Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:16 am

Well, thinking over myself, I realized that I have a particular trait that happens to be extremely Mary Sue-ish in real life. Basically, I can get along with everyone. And I mean everyone. Nobody's ever disliked me in my entire life without me doing something really shitty to them, and even then I can often get forgiven. And so I'm like the living embodiment of a Mary Sue. So I figured I'd write out all the pros and cons I know about myself, along with some help from the various people I know directly, to do a summary of my good and bad personality traits.

Good:
Highly charismatic (I have no enemies and many friends, and I get along with people I'm awkward and probably irritating around.)
Humble (Stems from the fact I think really poorly of myself, so it's not all that good.)
Hard worker (I'm not strong enough to really do much useful physical labor, but I try to make up for it by doing a lot of the less-intensive stuff.)

Bad:
Addictive personality (Extremely easy for me to get addicted to something, pretty hard for me to quit the addiction, and when I'm addicted my work ethic completely disappears. Preferred addiction is the computer, and I could honestly say that I'm addicted to what I'm doing right now.)
Lazy (Comes when I'm addicted, I stop caring about everything else.)
Self-loathing/self-pity (I tend to hate who I am and feel sorry for myself that I'm stuck being me, sometimes to the point of considering suicide. I also tend to care so little about myself that I let people walk over me.)
Unempathetic (I tend to not pay very good attention to other people, so I miss out on a lot of important stuff and it usually comes back to bite me in the ass.)
Forgetful (Mostly stems from addiction, but I tend to forget important events like when stuff is due.)
Manipulative (I can lie rather comfortably and manipulate others, my preferred choice of manipulation is to let people mistreat me then go bawl to someone for their sympathy. I also tend to take advantage of others' hospitality until they get tired of me.)
Weak (I don't really work out, and I have a lot less physical strength than I should. Not really a personality thing, although I guess it ties in with being too lazy to work out.)
Stubborn (Doesn't show often, but sometimes I'll just refuse to budge from something. I'm so weak-willed that I usually end up changing anyway, but sometimes it ends up being too late by that point.)

So, I don't think I really missed anything, although I might have. What do you think, do I sound like a Mary Sue? Also, I might need help with writing all those negative aspects accurately.

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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  MC Dirty on Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:25 am

All in all, I can't give you any ideas on how to write out those negative aspects since I don't know where you want the story to go. Depending on that, some flaws might be really important while other ones could be completely irrelevant. It all depends on the context.
However, I was thinking about laziness, too, and I can't think of a way to tie that flaw into any plot if the laziness isn't unrealistically extreme. Same with forgetfulness, really.

There is one flaw you mentioned that could be extremely important and that's being manipulative. You mentioned taking advantage of others' hospitality which could be applicable practically anywhere in a setting such as this one. Combined with manipulating through use of both lies and truth, this could be very interesting.
However, you need to make sure that your character isn't too good at lying or it'll just be a Mary Sue trait. You also need to be careful to not present this character as a huge dick which might be the case if he manipulates too heavily.
The latter might not be of concern to you since you write out how you would react, but since you're also writing the setting and the other characters, it is your responsibility to not only write scenes where you would react like a dick.

Edit: I just noticed how weird it is that I'm telling you how to write yourself.
Now I feel bad...

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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  Slag on Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:25 am

I think a big problem is I'm inherently a nice fellow. I generally don't actively do bad things. My manipulations, like so many other addicts, is almost a survival instinct brought forth through a 'need' for my addiction and played through subconsciously.

Basically, I'm an alcoholic whose addiction of choice, rather than alcohol, is my computer. I don't have proper coping mechanisms to handle my life, which is the core of the problem, and I prefer to live in the world of the computer, where I have a lot more control. In order to get with my beloved computer as long as possible, I lie straightfaced, ignore others, and generally turn into an all-around useless dick. When everything starts falling apart, as it usually does, instead of blaming others like most addictive personalities, I focus it internally, blaming myself until I'm nearly suicidal, which is about the time my little bit of sanity kicks in and reminds me that I've lost my grip and need to get back on track. So I go back to living until I find my way back to the computer and the cycle starts over again.

The issue is, Equestria doesn't have computers for me to descend into and never come back, and I have absolutely zero experience with any other drug of choice, so I have no idea what kind of addiction I might form (or if I'd be able to form one at all without being introduced to actual drugs). Hell, I might even be satisfied with the nature of Equestria enough that I never even get to become addicted, and most of my character flaws go down the drain. That wouldn't be very interesting, though, and I'd sorta be left as a Mary Sue in perfect happy land.

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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  MC Dirty on Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:38 am

Well, I think you've got a huge problem right there.
When you think up a character, you choose flaws specifically so that they could be important in the plot and then build a setting so that those flaws come to light and are significant. However, since you're not making up a character, but using, well, yourself, you really don't have much freedom there.
This is exactly the reason why I'm still hesitating to write down anything with the same premise (which I really want to do, as I mentioned a few pages ago). I couldn't find a way to make my flaws interesting. Or at least not the flaws that I'm aware of.

And that's another problem. I'm reasonably sure that you do have some flaws which could be interesting in this setting. It's just that you don't know them and/or don't know how to properly express them or write them down. So, a Mary Sue seems like the easy way out.

I really didn't intend this post to be so negative, but I guess that's how it is. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and I strongly encourage you to continue writing because I feel like there's tons of potential in this story.

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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  Slag on Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:56 am

I could do something about drug abuse, but I don't know if that sort of story would be appealing.

I've realized that the way Rainbow Dash is acting shows signs of codependence, but that would probably be just as unappealing and would probably end up making my character the Mary Sue who helped save her from herself, or the (likely addicted to something) horrible bastard who just abused her codependent nature for an easy place to stay and mooched off her either until one of us died or her friends helped her kick me to the curb or somehow reformed both of us. The former would definitely be unappealing, and I doubt the latter would be very good even though it would be the most 'realistic' story possible.

I do also have a bit of an issue with having fewer qualms than the average person about death, and by extension causing it, but I doubt that would be much use in Equestria since everything's peaceful and the rulers are benevolent gods who can pretty much solve any problem by themselves.

I'm a boring fucker.

Edit: I could always do some kind of slice-of-life story where I just get used to my new home, but I don't know if that would be any good.

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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  MC Dirty on Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:06 am

Slag wrote:[...]or the (likely addicted to something) horrible bastard who just abused her codependent nature for an easy place to stay and mooched off her either until one of us died or her friends helped her kick me to the curb or somehow reformed both of us.
That's pretty much the story I imagined when I read this:
Slag wrote:I also tend to take advantage of others' hospitality until they get tired of me.
But at the same time, yes, I presume it would be rather unappealing to most readers. Making the protagonist a horrible bastard sort of works and it can make for an interesting story, but it's incredibly difficult to make an appealing story with an unappealing protagonist. Furthermore, a horrible bastard in Equestria wouldn't really last very long, especially not if he's being a horrible bastard to freaking Rainbow Dash!
All this hypothetical stuff aside, it depends on how you see the relationship between the protagonist and Rainbow Dash. How did you intend it to be? Whatever the original idea was, you should stick with it since there's probably a reason that you chose that idea, even if you can't pin down that reason. The protagonist is supposed to be you, after all.

Edit: For the love of Celestia, take what I'm writing down here with a huge grain of salt. I am not a writer and my ideas might very well be completely horrible. In fact, they probably are.

Edit2: Yeah, I'm guessing a Slice-Of-Life story is the best option right now. Everything else would just seem cliche├ęd/constructed as all hell.

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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  Slag on Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:15 am

The thing is, I don't know what to write anymore. I'm lost, man.

I originally wrote RD as sort of a playful pervert with a spontaneous nature. If I continued writing as that, she's probably kick Alex out after she decided that having him sharing the house with her was too much exposure, and Alex would be stuck trying to get his own house. Alex would probably call her out on it and they'd end up pissed off at each other, a problem which the other main characters would likely try to rectify. Alex's and Rainbow Dash's bullheadedness would probably end up getting in the way, and story would finish with the two finally coming to terms with one another or something.

...that actually sounds like an interesting idea.

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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  MC Dirty on Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:26 am

I like how right after saying that you have no idea what to write, you write out ideas for the rest of the story.
Hell, those are really good ideas.

How would Alex react to being kicked out? Angry? Sad? Pissed off? AIN'T EVEN MAD?
How would he deal with it? Would he talk about it with other people? In that case, you have an easy way to include the rest of the main characters back in the story; how they would react etc. Even if he doesn't, he could just meet them in town by coincidence, they would ask why he looks so glum/angry/whatever...
We've already seen Twilight and Rarity react to RD's and Alex' relationship, so their view on her kicking him out would be neat to know. In fact, you could probably flesh out what the other main characters think about RD x Alex way before that, just so their reaction to Alex getting kicked out would be even more interesting. Especially if some of them just know what Rainbow Dash is like and that it won't end well, they could be rather brutally honest to him, especially Applejack.

I'll just stop writing now, but I knew there was potential to this story!

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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  Slag on Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:52 pm

Well, it's a start. I'm still not sure if it's going to be any good, but it's not terrible at least.

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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  Armok on Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:12 pm

You could always get addicted to magic.
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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  Fniff on Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:28 am

My super happy funtime take on this premise.

WARNING: QUITE GRIMDARK:

Dr. Whooves: Hello, mister MacGinty.
Finn: Morning.
DW: How have you been feeling, lately?
F: This straight jacket is rather annoying. Bit constricting. I don't think I'm that dangerous.
DW: You killed Twilight Sparkle, mister MacGinty. I believe that constitutes as dangerous.
F: I've been in what could be considered a living hell for twelve years. Surely, you can give me that.
DW: Let's just get on with this. First, explain what happened between the fifteen second delay between extraction and appearance.
F: I've been in hell.
DW: Be more specific.
F: Hell, as in, Dante's Inferno. Paradise Lost. Getting tortured by demons with sticks. Of course, they do have that Stockholm Syndrome thing, so that's a bonus.
DW: What do you mean?
F: It means I'm technically a demon. Not a very young one, I still look human, but I have some interesting kinks. Technically, can't die. Spent about five years being broken, and I agreed to start torturing people. And ponies. Oh my lord, did I torture a lot of ponies. You know, ponies don't actually have souls. So when you die, you don't go to heaven. You go straight to hell.
DW: I assume that is a joke.
F: No, it really isn't. Oh my, it isn't.
DW: Why did you kill Ms. Sparkle?
F: Because in my time in hell, I realized that she was my least favorite pony, not my most favorite.
DW: You are a fan of the alleged television show, then?
F: Not anymore, no.
DW: Ah. You killed Twilight over her being your least favorite pony in a show that you don't even like?
F: Correct. I murdered her, and I quite enjoyed it, to be honest. Which is why I'm glad I'm going to do it again.
DW: Wh--
*Fabric ripping. Manic laughter. Doctor Whooves screaming in pain.*
*Recording ends.*
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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  Slag on Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:07 am

I wonder how the ponies would react if they found out about my fics. Some of them might forgive me, others might ostracize me.

Oddly enough, I think that Twilight, despite being my victim, might be willing to forgive me. Pinkie, I think that she'd probably not speak to me for a while.

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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  MC Dirty on Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:15 am

Slag wrote:I wonder how the ponies would react if they found out about my fics. Some of them might forgive me, others might ostracize me.

Oddly enough, I think that Twilight, despite being my victim, might be willing to forgive me. Pinkie, I think that she'd probably not speak to me for a while.
Huh, there fics where Twilight and Pinkie are your victims? I'm pretty sure I know the contents of all of your fanfics. Or are you talking about Friends In Need?

Edit: Oh, or are you talking about The Spellbook? Because it's rather understandable that they would get grossed out by that. Or is Twilight your victim in FiN and Pinkie Pie the murderer or what?

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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  Slag on Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:21 am

Friends in Need.

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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  Emberflash on Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:41 am

Well, after reading the story and all of the following comments (yes, I know I'm horribly behind you all; it's what I do), I definitely have to say I'm enjoying the story thus far, especially with these indicators of where it may be going. The fallout between Alex and RD would be particularly interesting: would they each run off with somepony else to make each other jealous? Give each other the perpetual cold shoulder, forcing their friends' intervention? The possibilities are devious, I tellya.


Personally, (and remember, this is coming from merely a pastime writer, here; and an unposted one at that) I believe the little instances of Mary-Sueness at the beginning better help to establish the character's eventual plummet. It really only becomes a Mary Sue character if it's just overt and ever-continuing; allowing for a little bit of seeming perfection (again, in my opinion) to poke through helps to better highlight some striking imperfection later on. Life begins all hunky-dory, everything moves just swimmingly... and then the sky begins to fall.
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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  MC Dirty on Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:14 am

Emberflash wrote:Well, after reading the story and all of the following comments (yes, I know I'm horribly behind you all; it's what I do), I definitely have to say I'm enjoying the story thus far, especially with these indicators of where it may be going. The fallout between Alex and RD would be particularly interesting: would they each run off with somepony else to make each other jealous? Give each other the perpetual cold shoulder, forcing their friends' intervention? The possibilities are devious, I tellya.


Personally, (and remember, this is coming from merely a pastime writer, here; and an unposted one at that) I believe the little instances of Mary-Sueness at the beginning better help to establish the character's eventual plummet. It really only becomes a Mary Sue character if it's just overt and ever-continuing; allowing for a little bit of seeming perfection (again, in my opinion) to poke through helps to better highlight some striking imperfection later on. Life begins all hunky-dory, everything moves just swimmingly... and then the sky begins to fall.
This man speaks the truth. I 100% agree, I just wasn't able to express it so eloquently.

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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

Post  Sean Mirrsen on Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:46 am

Sean Mirrsen wrote:Creative mode engaged.

There's a city that's full of misery,
There's a twisted kind of honesty,..
There's a sort of a disloyalty,..
There's a lack of generosity...
--
Don't need four hooves, just to be a pony.
Don't need two arms, to be a man.
Don't need fingers, to shape a friendship.
Just need to hear us, to understand.

Every universe in existence, every species, any race,
You just need to have persistence, and a friendly face.
Every creature in existence, purple, orange, pink or blue -
There's one way to coexistence,
All you need is a friend or two...
--
In their world, beyond the veil of stars,
There are hearts that bear many scars,
But there's a light that our love can find
And there's a hope for all of Humankind

So let's give them more than sympathy
In the name of Generosity,
With our Kindness and our Loyalty,
Let our Magic give them HARMONY-Y!
--
Don't need four hooves, just to be a pony.
Don't need two arms, to be a man.
Don't need fingers, to shape a friendship.
Just need to hear us, to understand.

Every universe in existence, every species, any race,
You just need to have persistence, and a friendly face.
Every creature in existence, purple, orange, pink or blue -
There's one way to coexistence,
All you need is a friend or two...


Okay, that's the complete song, sans one stanza in the first half that seems to be missing from the music videos I can find. I can't find proper words for it anyway, so all is good.

Aaand since nobody seems to care anymore, have the link to the original song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMehQTMfvMc

edit: The lyrics to it are oddly hard to find it seems:
Spoiler:
All You Need is a Heart or Two


Lyrics by Neil Bishrey
Music by Charles-Edouard de Surville

There's a sea that's full of Mercury
There's a primitive kind of industry
And there's a sort of Low Technology
And there's a lack of Anti-Gravity

There's a Moon that only we can see <-- These four lines are missing from the video
On the dark side of Humanity
And all the sons and all the daughters say
They wouldn't have it any other way

Don't need three eyes to be an alien
Don't need two arms to be a man
Don't need feelers, to feel compassion
Don't need to fear us, to understand
Every planet, every nation
Any species any race
Don't need teleportation
Or a scary face
Every planet, every nation
Purple orange grey or blue
There's one qualification:
All you need is a heart or two.

In this world beyond the Galaxy
There's a sky that hides their misery
And there's a light that only love can find
And there's a hope for all of Humankind

So let's give them more than sympathy
In the name of Alienity
Give them Close Encounters openly
And let our inspiration set them free

Don't need three eyes to be an alien
Don't need two arms to be a man
Don't need feelers, to feel compassion
Don't need to fear us, to understand
Every planet, every nation
Any species any race
Don't need teleportation
Or a scary face
Every planet, every nation
Purple orange grey or blue
There's one qualification:
All you need is a heart or two.
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Re: Abducted By Ponies + To Be An Alien (aka Holy Crap It's Not Grimdark)

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